The England U20s continue their U20s Six Nations campaign this Friday night, as they head to the Rec for a round two battle with Wales. The home of Bath Rugby, England U20s scrum coach Nathan Catt enjoyed a career in blue, black and white, with the former prop excited to return to his previous home of 12 seasons.
Catt epitomised what it meant to be a one club man, and made 174 appearances for the West Country side from 2008 to 2020. Now, Catt works within the England U20s set-up to build the nation’s scrum of tomorrow, following a coaching stint in the Bath Academy. The 36-year-old is delighted to see two Bath Academy products named in the England squad to play Wales on Friday, as props Billy Sela and Scott Kirk have been listed on the match day 23.
Sela is set to start at loose-head whilst Kirk is gearing up for an appearence off the bench. Catt has worked with Sela since he was an U16 in the Bath Academy, and discussed his career path from the back-row, to packing down the England scrum. Kirk arrived a little later on, but has been a valued asset to Catt’s Bath and England front row player groups. Speaking in an England U20 press conference event, Catt said;
“Personally, for me, it’s nice because previously, I was a coach in the Bath Academy, had Billy since he was 16. Now having him in the 20s, which is really cool to be able to watch his journey from the back row to playing England U20s in the front row, and watched the whole journey unfold. Yeah, it’s pretty cool and probably won’t experience that, dare I say again, so it’s been very good to see.
“Same, with Scotty Kirk, he came in a little bit later, at 18s, as it didn’t happen as much in our school system. But again, just watching the way he’s transitioned into coming from a guy which just played schoolboy rugby and now he’s representing England 20s is, again, I’m pretty proud to have those kind of relationships and watch the journey forward for those boys.”
As 2003 Rugby World Cup winner Richard Hill discussed in a recent article, it is not uncommon for a promising elite level player to alter their position, as they progress into the England pathways set-up. Whilst Hill discussed a certain England back-row, who he believes could play in the centres, Nathan Catt highlighted how England U20 prop Billy Sela began his career as a back-row forward. Catt discussed the decision making process regarding such positional alterations, and looked at Sela’s own jersey to packing down the front row of the scrum.
“The bigger picture, a lot of the time, you get to school and club rugby when those guys are bit younger, and you basically stick the best players at scrum half and fly half, your best forward goes at number eight. Then you get to 16s, and you realise that basically all the best forwards are number eights. Then it’s, Ok, realistically, do they have the attributes to be an elite level, and actually are they still a really good rugby player but could go further in the front row for example.
“That’s kind of what we saw with Billy. I remember being at the trial that he was at, at the time when he was not the fittest, which is why he was at a trial and not in the academy. So he was pretty unfit, but I remember him picking up the ball with one hand, running over a kid, and then 10 minutes later when he got his breath back, he then knocked someone over pretty hard. I thought you know, you can’t teach people, you can’t coach people to be able to do that. They’ve just got that ability.
“Maybe at the time you think ‘ok, maybe the athleticism isn’t there for a number eight, but he could be a really good front row forward’. And that’s where you go, ‘are you interested in playing front row, he’s the spot’. And fortunatly, he went to the ACE (Academies and Colleges Education) school which Bath were affiliated with at the time, so if he does move to front row we can really resource him well, because he’s in the ACE system.
“So it meant that, we could go and practice scrummaging with him, two to three times a week, when you know that you’ve got the parts which you can’t coach, as I said, in the physicality and skill-set and the physique. Right now you can put some kind of technical work in with him, and then hopefully, you end up with a good front row player.”
An interesting area for a future study, Catt would like to find out how many current professional front row players began their playing careers at either flanker or number eight. The Bath legend then went on to discuss the second blue, black and white prospect that’s set to take on Wales’ front row tomorrow night, as Scotty Kirk’s journey was poised for either the number one or two jersey.
“I’d like to know, I’d be genuinely interested in the study to see how many current front rowers are ex-back rows. I bet it would be, especially with loose-heads, I bet it would be a fair amount. Tight-head maybe not so much as you need that mass, but it would be quite an interesting study.”
“So for Scott (Kirk), when he turned up it was either, he was a loose-head and it was ‘does he play hooker’, and he’s stuck with loose-head, and he’s done pretty well with it. But he came to us as I said, right at the end of the U18s, he came to Bath right at the end of the 18s program and then went to university. He basically came to Bath for the University. And then Bath (RFC) knew that he had played some decent level rugby so trialled him for the academy, ‘ok, he is good’. Then he kind of got stuck in with the system.”
Despite the promising talents that are breaking out of the Bath Academy, arguably the most talked about young front row talent is Sale Sharks prop Asher Opoku-Fordjour. The 19-year-old has impressed all onlookers this season, with strong run-outs for Sale in the Premiership and Champions Cup. Opoku-Fordjour has made 10 senior appearences for the Sharks this season, and possesses the highly sort-after ability of being able to scrummage on both loose-head and tight-head. Asher is set to start at loose-head against Wales U20s, and speaking on Opoku-Fordjour’s meteoric rise at the AJ Bell, Catt said;
“Well, he obviously played U20s last year as well, so we worked with him then, as an attack coach. He’s done unbelievably well, to come in as a 19-year-old and play Premiership rugby at tight-head, It’s unbelievably impressive. There’s not many people that can do that.
“Then through this year with him then coming back into the U20s program. I think what he’s done really well is, he’s spent time with, for example Billy Sela, who’s an U19 lad, straight into the 20s program. He’s spending time kind of leading in those aspects and picking up little conversations and trying to share his experiences which he’s had over the last 12 months, to try and improve the squad.
“So he’s been brilliant, and against a genuinely good scrummaging Italy pack, think he did really well again, considering he’s predominately played tight-head at club. For him to be able to come over, having spent the last six months or so at tight-head, coming over to loose-head, and he put in a pretty decent performance, again shows how diligent he is around his learning, and he’s unbelievably strong, which always helped.”
The former Bath and England Saxons prop fully understands the task of switching across from loose-head to tight-head. The fact that Opoku-Fordjour can seamlessly transition from the one to the three jersey speaks volumes of the 19-year-old’s potential in an England shirt. Catt further discussed how the Sale man was trialled across the two positions, and how he would teach a young prop who is swapping across from the pillars of the scrum.
“I think it is unbelievably hard to play both sides (off the scrum). There’s not many people that can do both sides well, genuinely well. I think it’s easier to go from tight to loose, so we played Asher at loose-head last year, but he was a tight-head. But he came in, and Afo (Afolabi Fasogbon) was doing well at tight-head with Tim Hoyt, and Asher came in and he was disruptive at loose-head. We were like ‘okay, if we need to we can get both guys on the pitch at the same time, then let’s look at using Asher at loose-head’ But obviously he’s then gone back to Sale and done really well at tight-head.
“I think it’s really hard to do both well, but there are players that can do it can do it, Thomas du Toit at Bath can do it, we’ll see how Asher gets on. So far, he’s doing pretty well with it, as I said, 19-year-old tight-head in the Prem is pretty impressive, and then to come in, and do as well as he’s done for us last year at loose-head, in the first game so far. Yeah, I mean, he’s doing well but I do think it’s harder to do now than it probably ever has been with just the technicalities of it.”
“I think there’s a lot of fundamentals which are the same. You need flat backs, you still need to have the same knee angles But as I’ve kind of mentioned earlier, for me it’s all around feel. It’s how quickly I suppose they can pick up the learnings of what that feel needs to be like. I do think it’s good for players particularly in their younger years, to be able to do both, because I think it makes them adaptable and to understand actually, if you’re doing XYZ as a tight-head, how that feels at loose-head and what the caveats to that are.
“It’s just when you start pushing beyond that, I think it’s tricky to get that really good detail for both. So in terms of the process, I think you just have to do it as if you were coaching, or the way I would visualize it anyways, is if you’re coaching somebody that’s new scrummaging. They’ll pick it up a lot quicker than somebody that… when I say ‘new to scrummaging’, I mean new to scrummaging at a reasonable level. So, they pick it up quicker, they’ll have at least a basic understanding, I think you just still have to kind of go through the stepping stones of ‘this is what we are trying to get to’.”
Outside of the England U20s front row, two of Catt’s forwards who have been excelling in recent weeks are lock and captain Finn Carnduff and flanker Henry Pollock. One of the most talked about young talents in the Premiership, Northampton young-gun Pollock scored a hat-trick against Italy, in the opening round of the 2024 U20 Six Nations. Similarly, Leicester lock Carnduff has taken on the new captaincy role in his stride, and contributed a try and an assist to the 36-11 win out in Treviso. Speaking on the two break-out players, Catt said;
“Yeah, he’s (Henry Pollock) a good player. Saw him on TV having worked with him, now working with him in the 20s. So you can see he’s exciting. He’s an exciting player.”
“Obviously, tries are nice, you want to be able to score tries with your set-piece and with your field play.For me it’s around, with all of those attributes that they have got, physical potential, there’s a bit about the boys if you know what I mean. There’s some guys there, that they want to win collisions. So it’s really good to have the ability to still work technically, tactically, but that kind of mind set that they want to try and dominate set pieces, in collisions, in tackles, for me it’s an exciting group, and it is pleasing to see.”
“Yeah, I think with Finn, again he played 20s last year, I think you know what you’re going to get. He is unbelievably dilligent, always plays consistently well, For me he’s been, I thought, (Lewis) Chessum, was a really good leader, I think Finn almost kind of assisted him with that. And now Chessum has left, I think Finn has been unbelievably impressive.
“He calms, and just gives clarity in his messaging. He’s got a really good mix between having banter with the boys, but he’s also got a tone of voice, and I think the boys respect his authority, and I think he holds that authority. Because as I said, the way he plays, he’s consistent, he gives clarity, he works hard, I think he’s been really impressive, he’s done really well.
Looking to one of his recent England U20s graduates that has progressed into the senior squad, Catt was delighted to see Harlequins back-row Chandler Cunningham-South make his senior test debut in last weekend’s Six Nations win against Italy. Just last season, Cunningham-South was playing in the U20s set-up, and the former Bath prop believes that such rapid progression could act as an invaluable source of inspiration to the aspiring England hopefuls, such as Pollock and Carnduff.
“I think the guys watching the game, and Chandler running out, loads of them would have played with him, just seven or eight months ago. So it’s important for those guys to know that, obviously it’s an ambition, like it’s a big step up, but potentially for some of them it’s not a million miles away. It’s not unfathomable that their playing test rugby in a year, two years whatever it is. It’s not too far as it may feel, and I do think like a Chandler is a good example what you can achieve if you work hard and the stars align, it could be closer than you think.”